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Here are the facts about Donner's scheme!!

Will the Netherlands set a worldwide trend for cannabis policies?

Moderators: deliriumt, cannabinol, milehigh, CoolZero

Here are the facts about Donner's scheme!!

Postby cannabinol » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:36 pm

Facts vs. Foreign pressure: Can new Dutch government close coffeeshops?

At this moment, The Netherlands do not have an actual government, but the parties involved in the future government, CDA and PvdA, are discussing their coalition plans for weeks now.
One the informers of the new government is ‘current’ and future CDA Justice Minister Donner, now involved in forming a new coalition with the PvdA, the two parties have a small minority in the Dutch Tweede Kamer.
Minister Donner has big plans to rid Holland of Drugs and Crime, as they have been announced over the past few months.
Donner wants to get the Dutch policy on Drugs and Penalties more in line with the rest of Europe, Holland’s Liberal Drug Policy seems to undermine Justice and Law in Europe.

Minister Donner wants to go back to minimum penalties for drug possession, like in other EU countries, under political pressure from France and Sweden, meaning, 1 year maximum for possession of cannabis, and 3 years maximum for the supplying of cannabis.
His future policy includes going after coffeeshops with a website, as he considers that advertising, which is forbidden under the Dutch coffeeshop regulations.
Donner also wants to close a lot of coffeeshops, based on the coffeeshop policy, out of a total of 806, and he wants to solve the problems in the border area’s with Germany and Belgium, where thousands of foreign visitors flood the local coffeeshops to buy cannabis on a daily basis.
Donner stated the following, when he was asked if he was going to tackle the Dutch Drug Policy, ‘the cause of a lot of nuisance and crime’, as interviewers Jan Hoedeman and Frank Poorthuis put it:

“We have come so close together that we can not keep saying: The Netherlands should just keep doing it its own way, because we cause our neighbours trouble with our policy, and we deny them the possibility to do it their way. The Tolerance Policy for coffeeshops is a part of the Drugproblem. I can not make a separation in that. But, in order to see what I can do for the Tolerance Policy, you have to wait until Prinsjesdag.”
( Prinsjesdag is the day the Queen reads the Bill of the Dutch State, and announces new Tax increases, o.a.) http://www.volkskrant.nl/denhaag/1032238673402.html

This quote means that Minister Donner does not see any difference between regulated coffeeshops and cannabis, and hard drugs and their suppliers.
His statements on Prinsjesdag included threat to close the coffeeshops, as usual, and a crack down on drugs and crime, nothing surprising, he just announced he wanted to ruin a system that gave the best results in the world.
Donner expects citizens to make an effort, by getting more involved in the community as such, and more wisdom that would make ordinary people part of projects to secure safety in our society, a task that we consider unpaid police work in Holland.
He stated that the authorities would provide more police officers on the streets and more prison cells. He considered to solve the current shortage of cells by putting two inmates in one cell, and to re-instate the old Veenhuizen prison.
The reality of that moment was that coke-smugglers, arriving at Amsterdam Airport from the Antilles Island , with pellets of coke in their belly, were released after ‘delivering’ their contents, there were no cells available to lock them up. It only got out in the press when a person caught with several kilo’s of coke in a suitcase was released for the lack of cells, hundreds with ‘only’ a few hundred grams of pellets had been released previously.
Estimates showed that 8000 convicted suspects could not or not fully be locked up because of the increasing shortage of prison cells.
Even today, coke-smugglers with a ‘content’ or load of less than 1500 grams! will not be locked up in the Netherlands, they are send back to their country of origin, with a note from the Custom’s and the Prosecutor, telling them they will be locked up in case he/she comes back to Holland. Minister Donner is responsible for this system.

On November 7, 2002, it became clear that the plans to build new prisons were rejected, because of a lack of funds. Minister Donner organised a priority debate about the growing lack of prison cells and the release of the pellet-smugglers, stating all new prison projects were cancelled as a result of financing.
http://www.nrc.nl/dossiers/Rijksbegroti ... 49237.html

He also stated he would act against coffeeshops advertising online, his department found out that 103 coffeeshops have a website, some of them violated the regulations, he would act against that in due time. He would announce new suggestions to solve the cell shortage the same month, it never happened, the government stepped down before he came up with it.

The results of a quick scan, executed by the National Police Corps (KLPD) showed that 12% of the 805 coffeeshops, 103 outlets, had a website online, none of them offered cannabis for sale, no dope was being transferred through the discovered sites.
The KLPD also found 1500 sites about synthetic drugs online, 3% of them were Dutch.
Donner, of course, was very worried about all this.

A publication from the Dutch Staats-courant from December 2, 2003, unveiled that the EU ministers of Justice failed in finding agreement over harmonised penalties for drugs trade. The Dutch softdrugs policy was heavily criticised by France and Sweden. The criteria for coffeeshops in the border area’s were to be tightened, to diminish the frontier crossing effects of the Dutch softdrugs policy.
Donner stated that the Dutch policy should not cause consequences for the neighbouring countries a legitimate demand by the EU partner states. Besides that there is research going to determine the health risks of softdrugs. Minister Donner suggested that the results of this research might lead to a stricter Dutch softdrugs policy.
http://www.brijder.nl/nieuws/nieuwsuitg ... ieuwsid=14

All this shows Donner hangs his head to the wishes and pressure of two European partners, and is willing to sacrifice the best executed Drug Policy in the world to please foreign leaders and demands.

The latest announcement on the Dutch Drug Policy came on January 25, when Donner announced he wants to close 400 coffeeshops, out of the remaining 806 still active.

Translation of Haarlems Dagblad, Feb. 26, 2003:

Donner wants hard line on softdrugs

‘Neighbourhoods in hands weed gangs’

By: Ap van den Berg and Ferdi Schooten

The Hague/GPD- Justice Minister Donner (CDA) wants to tighten the tolerance policy for softdrugs and bring it in line with European legislation. A confidential report shows he wants ‘a sharp decrease in the number of coffeeshops’. Donner also wants to discourage druguse and homegrowing. It has been confirmed by reliable sources around the minister.

If it was up to Donner, he will start a major offensive against illegal hemp plantations. It happens more often that criminal gangs use houses and basements in the poorer neighbourhoods, as it states in not yet published research of criminologist Prof. Dr. Frank Bovenkerk. According to Bovenkerk, the results from his report will be used ‘to reconsider the softdrugs policy critically’.
The criminologist states there are 20 neighbourhoods, spread over the whole off the Netherlands, controlled by weed gangsters.
Around 60 % of the crop is exported to foreign countries. The police usually only manages to catch the growers, mainly mothers on benefits, junks and people in great debts. The gangs, who supply for the necessary equipment, the plants, the utilities and the clipping, always escape from prosecution.

The Minister will offer his suggestions to the Parliament on short notice. Because Donner is also the informer for the new government’s formation, his prerogatives will come to order during the formation of the Cabinet.
The PvdA (The CDA’s only coalition partner) does not feel anything for a hard line on softdrugs. This party thinks the police can use its energy way better for catching crooks.
The CDA, however, fears that smoking a joint will sooner lead to a transfer to hard drugs.

The number of coffeeshops has already decreased noticeably over the last 5 years. At present, our country counts a little under 800 cannabis outlets (806,nvs) for marihuana and weed?, compared to around 1500 in 1998. The main loss of coffeeshops occurred in the big cities.
But, according to Donner, another 400 coffeeshops will have to be closed within a year, minimum. In fact, Municipalities can decide over the softdrugs policy independently.
By tightening the current policy, Donner wants to force municipalities in to complying.

By bringing the Dutch softdrugs policy more in line with the stance of the EU member states, Donner hopes to make good agreements about the smuggling of humans, terrorism protection and asylum policy.
“Some countries, amongst whom France, do not keep themselves to these agreements because of the Dutch softdrugs policy”, said a spokesman.

It starting to become clear that some of the Dutch cannabis coffeeshops are going to have a hard time in the near future, as soon as the new government is installed. The coalition that will be in power in the Dutch parliament, the Tweede Kamer, will consist of the CDA, a Christian Conservative party, and the PvdA, the major Dutch Socialist Party. The CDA has always been against coffeeshops, they want a zero-tolerance policy, but could not get any support for that in their latest attempt to rule Holland, with List Fortuyn (LPF) and the VVD. The LPF was in favour of full legalisation of cannabis, so a status quo was the only alternative, meaning the coffeeshops were left alone.

The coalition only lasted 86 days, the new elections were last January, the CDA and the PvdA ended up as the two biggest parties in the Netherlands, and together they have enough Chairs to makeup a majority in government.
The PvdA was involved in the two previous cabinets, which came up with the current cannabis policy in 1996, that policy, following the AHOJG criteria, caused the closure of about 650 coffeeshops since then.
Today, the PvdA stated they agree with the CDA on their stance towards coffeeshops, a major disappointment for a lot of cannabis smokers that voted PvdA, like myself. The PvdA feels that coffeeshops in the surrounding of schools should be closed at short notice, like the CDA suggests.
Van Heemst, the PvdA spokesman: “Years ago, we agreed that coffeeshops would be prohibited to be located near places where a lot of kids come together. In practice, I still see them there, in Rotterdam there is even a coffeeshop opposite a school for children with correctional education.”
Donner, the present and new Minister of Justice, expects to be able to close 400 coffeeshops, out of the current 800, a decrease of 50%!
Donner’s plans to act tough against coffeeshops will have a majority in the Tweede Kamer, the VVD is in favour too, who now state they already agreed upon that in the previous coalition, another group of backstabbers, they too participated in the Purple coalition, with the PvdA.
Donner’s motivation for his crusade against cannabis is the Gateway theory, supposing that the use of cannabis will lead to the use of hard drugs, an old story, which has been found unfounded based on research in many countries, even the USA.
Minister Donner does not seem to know how the Dutch figures on drug use and –abuse compare to the other countries in the EU, Holland is only 13th of the EU in cannabis consumption, with coffeeshops, according to a UN report!

I’ll display the top 15, so I can at least include Holland in there.

Cannabis: Annual prevalence of abuse as percentage of the EU population aged 15 and above:

Ireland: 9.4%
UK: 9.4%
FRANCE: 7.4%
Switserland: 7.0%
Spain: 7.0%
Germany: 6%
Iceland: 6%
Italy: 6%
Belgium: 5.5%
Austria: 5%
Denmark: 4.4%
Greece: 4.4%
Netherlands: 4.1%
Luxembourg: 4%
San Marino: 4%

Some other interesting figures from around the world:

Papua New Guinea: 29.5%
South Africa: 18.4%
New Zealand: 18%
Australia: 17.9%
Canada: 8.9%
USA: 8.3% (Note: 2 times as much as in Holland! Prohibition or coffeeshops?)
Iran: 4.2%
Portugal: 3.7%

Holland would not make the top 50 in the world, according to this UN report, the UN knows that Holland is only a minor cannabis consuming country. Why in the world are they picking on Dutch coffeeshops so persistently?
I know why, Dutch coffeeshops have and address, unlike all other drugs suppliers in the world!

Source: United Nations: Office on Drugs and crimes.
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/report_2002-06 ... 6-26_1.pdf

Donner just bows for international pressure, but closing 50% of the coffeeshops will not make much of an impression to the critics, they want them all shut, and all cannabis growers locked up, like in the USA, they even lock people up for selling bongs and waterpipes! I suspect Donner is in bed with the DEA, they have about 80 agents in The Hague, so they must have been at least in touch with our Minister of Justice.

Belgium is going to decriminalise the possession of 5 grams of cannabis for personal use, and the cultivation of 1 cannabis plant per person in March 2003, how long will the UN and the US allow that country to ‘step out of bounds’? I am sure the DEA in Brussels are already at it.

Portugal has decriminalised the use and possession of ALL drugs years ago.

Switserland is going to allow ‘pot-shops’, after Dutch model, that country already allows the cultivation of cannabis.

The UK is going to declassify cannabis on July 3, using cannabis will become more or less accepted, mainly to prevent the UK Justice system from clogging up more than it already is.

Sweden had another argument to get the Dutch coffeeshops closed: Schizophrenia!
The use of cannabis was supposed to lead to an explosion of Schizophrenia, as Sweden stated, so the source of that evil, the Dutch coffeeshops, had to be closed to prevent that.
I found some interesting figures about schizophrenia online, making the Swedes look like a bunch of schizophrenic liars!
Section two: The sufferers (people with a severe mental illness)
The average age of people being cared for in the European surveys appears to be around the mid-thirties to very early forties. The majority are male (ranging from 56% to 80%) and have a diagnosis of schizophrenia (ranging from 29% to 92%).
The table below contains a great deal of information, some of which is in different forms. The diagnosis of schizophrenia is very high amongst the sufferers in England and Ireland (as the word "Schizophrenia" remains in the title of both organisations, this is to be expected). In Holland particularly, but also Belgium and France, the diagnosis of schizophrenia is significantly lower. This will have an effect on the value of comparing some of the other results from the survey and is important to bear in mind.
Sufferer's Age, Gender and Diagnosis

(a) = average (mean)
Source: http://www.eufami.org/barcelona/lect_1_1.html

After 30 years of cannabis and coffeeshops, most of the Dutch population should be suffering from schizophrenia, but Sweden, Spain, England and Ireland have more sufferers, way more!

Donner’s motivation as he states it in the Dutch press is the pits, however, he and the CDA still think that the use of cannabis will lead to the use of hard drugs, advocating the so-called gateway theory. He feels closing the coffeeshops will protect the youth. Youth under 18 is not allowed into coffeeshops, so they have nothing to do with that!
This argument is so sad, I fear for Holland’s future if Donner stays in charge of the Justice Department, he should know that this anti-legalisation propaganda was crushed years ago:
http://www.rand.org/hot/press.02/gateway.html
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/gatewayt.htm

There are loads of articles online indicating that cannabis available on schools already, after the age for admittance to cannabis coffeeshops was increased from 16 to 18 in 1997, in Dutch, but I will paste a few here anyway:
http://www.gammanieuwsdienst.nl/pages1/ ... /drugs.htm
http://www.spunk.nl/artikelen/475334.html
http://www.pzc.nl/regioportal/PZC/0,262 ... 5_,00.html

Dutch figures show that less than 50% of the cannabis consumers buys their cannabis in coffeeshops, they are not allowed in every town or municipality, cannabis is available everywhere, through house dealers and home growers mainly.
Source: http://www.cedro-uva.org/

Donner will use a report by criminologist Prof. Dr. Bovenkerk to go after the homegrowers of cannabis, to prevent the supply to coffeeshop and to fight organised crime. Bovenkerk’s reported indicates that 60% of the cannabis produced in the Netherlands is destined for foreign countries. These figures, which might be close to the truth, should not be used against Holland and it’s growers, who only live up to their natural instincts, and supply a huge demand in Europe. Donner should address our neighbouring countries, to advise them to allow the cultivation and sales of cannabis in their respective countries, holding up the results of Holland’s successful 30-year experiment! That would stop the flood of foreigners coming to Holland for cannabis, nothing else.
Donner nor Bovenkerk seem to realise that homegrown cannabis is now 75% of the turnover in coffeeshops, before Nederweed came on the market, around 1990, it was 100% hash and marihuana from foreign countries, the merchandise was brought in by big, criminal organisations, which caused the Dutch Justice a lot of problems. Homegrowers took care of that problem, Holland no longer needs big piles of hash, so organised crime turned away from it. Hash is still available in Dutch coffeeshops, mainly from Morocco, but the transports coming in do not exceed the size of a car trunk, and is of good quality.
I can only draw this conclusion: Minister Donner does not know what he is about to do!

This is the doom scenario in case Minister Donner succeeds in his prerogatives:

Eliminating homegrowers would not stop the Dutch cannabis consumer from smoking cannabis, they would just go back to smoking hash again. It will not take long before big criminal organisations will pick up on that, they will start importing truck-, train, and boat loads of hash into the Netherlands again, across Europe’s unguarded borders.

Closing coffeeshops, no matter how many, will not lead to less cannabis use under youth, as they do not buy cannabis there, they rely on the sources that might get them in touch with hard drugs already. The coffeeshop policy was initiated to keep the youth away from hard drugs users and dealers, but that did not work anymore, after the increase of age, in 1997.

Closing coffeeshops will lead to more illegal sales, integrated in the sales of XTC, speed, cocaine and heroin, undoing the separation of the two markets, softdrugs and hard drugs, the reason to have a Tolerance policy and coffeeshops.

Minister Donner should realise he can proudly stand up for the Dutch Drug Policy, instead of bowing his head to unfounded criticism from France, Sweden and the UN, the USA should not have any say in our policy at all, they have the worse, self inflicted drug problem in the world.
It is also naïve to think that France and Sweden will be satisfied with 400 coffeeshops closed, they want them all closed, no less. By stating he can probably close 400 coffeeshops, Donner admits he can not close the other 400, that is the positive side.

My businesses are safe, the regulations, as Donner now wants to strictly apply in the Netherlands, are based on the Haarlem experiment and model, we moved away from schools in that process.
Other coffeeshops in Holland should have that chance too, Donner will not be able to deny them that, if that was allowed in Haarlem, it should be allowed in the whole country, there is clear system for that, it is called democracy.

I did my home work, I doubt if Minister Donner did his.

Nol van Schaik.
Founder of Willie Wortel’s coffeeshops, Haarlem, the Netherlands.
Author of ”The Dutch Experience” 30 years of hash and grass in coffeeshops.
http://www.realdealpublishing.com http://www.hempcity.net
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Postby raj » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:45 am

nol--

you've got to get on their backs and stop them from doing this. you mention that the PvdA caved in to this initiative; i don't know how true that is and i think they can be talked to. your articles only say that Donner and the CDA themselves want to close half the shops by the end of the year. BUT, and this is an important but. Prinsjesdag is in September, so we have time to try to challenge this threat and keep it from really materializing.

i'm one of the faithful, i think. i support pro-pot organizations in the US and when possible try to rally people against new legislation. i'm not at all a powerful man, just a voice. i think a lot of foreigners would support your efforts if YOU JUST TELL THEM WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR HOLLAND. Buying drugs and keeping up the tourism is one thing, but if they can actually point their voices at the Dutch public and Dutch government, it's beneficial. But since I don't read any Dutch myself, it's impossible for me to gauge how you can talk to the left-leaning parties--the PvdA and the VVD--and try and convince them. You posted these articles at the end of February--at that time I was in Amsterdam and noticed, for example, the Tweedy had been shut down. But otherwise, it seemed like business as usual for most people. There wasn't any big cloud of fear like there was last year.

We can't just lose our voice in parliament. You all, if you want coffeeshops to stay open and for us to keep coming with the business, must make the people on our side accountable and absolutely limit what Donner or any CDA politician can really do. In the past two years, I've gone to Holland nine times. I really hope you're not saying there's nothing we can do, in the next six months!

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Raj,

Postby cannabinol » Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:20 pm

As I already explained, the CDA thinks they can close about 400 coffeeshops, thus admitting they can NOT close the other 400, that is a given fact, Holland will never be without coffeeshops.

The coffeeshops that might be in the dangerzone, close to schools and other places where many youngsters gather, will have to be given the right and the time to move to a new location, like in Haarlem, which is the model for this policy. Donner can not deny them that right, as we have that in Haarlem, it has been executed without losses and with cooperation of the local authorities, since 1997. I pointed my collegues to that right, I am sure they will have it, if we still have any democracy left.

Coffeeshops owners are special people, in general, they had to enforce their rights to sell hash and marihuana, we will not give in to pressure now, we all know we are the basis of the success of the Dutch Tolerance Policy, not the Law or Politicians, we make the separation between cannabis and hard drugs clear, by keeping our shops and the culture clean.

We have just celebrated the 30th anniversary of the Dutch Coffeeshop, 30 years of open sales of cannabis, it will not end here, we are going for more.

I can do no more than I did, in displaying the truth, showing Donner and the UN are wrong, nobody can tell me we should close our coffeeshops, because the UN tells us to, 38 countries can not criticise Holland, they use more cannabis than we, so this criticism is as false as the intentions of George Bush.
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You are absolutely right!!

Postby oldhippyguy » Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:55 pm

Nol: The one sentence that really jumped out at me was " if we have any democracy left "...I am feeling the same thing here in the States..where has freedom gone? Our Constitution guarantees certain rights that CANNOT be denied, yet they are..Only by being in their faces and demanding our rights do we have any chance of getting or keeping them. As a pioneer and stalwart of the movement from the beginning,you know that asking and begging does not work..Force is sometimes the only way to get the attention that is needed. Non-violent action is always desired,of course..but non-action is the same thing as approval of the other side and what they believe and do. I can't wait to get my hands on your book..I will be arriving at Sativa April 17th, and want to buy a copy immediately. I will read it during the quiet times while I am there. The reviews are all fantastic and I know it will be fascinating. Your history of confrontation is a testimony to effective use of resources and I salute you for all the hard work..See you soon, Richard.
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Hi,

Postby cannabinol » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:44 pm

yes, democracy is somewhere, but not in our world, it seems...

I am delighted to have found out that Spain is better off than Holland at the moment, things will start happening here, ans I will be part of it.
I will just keep on trying to get cannabis accepted in every country I visit, challenging the basics of democracy and equal rights for all.

Spain is about to undergo a major change, the current government will be gone after the war they participate in, giving way to the socialists, who have a schedule for abortion, euthanasia and drugs already.

Spain will be the best cannabis country in the world soon, and I hope to take part in achieving that, I have been asked for support and advise by the good guys here, plans are being made to make a breakthrough.

there is always hope....
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cannabisshops in holland

Postby raj » Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:11 am

your update on spain is interesting. while in holland i often mused about how great it would be if a couple of historically grass-friendly countries--spain, france, morocco, jamaica, india--would bow to historical tradition and have coffeeshops like they once did. france and morocco were once famous for cafe life;it's a shame that it's so difficult to see these now-prohibitionist countries denounce and prosecute grass use.

but something kind of stands in the way of most decriminalization-oriented countries from doing this--their emphasis on "harm reduction." in jamaica, for example, new legislation will make grass legal "for private use only"--the same policy as colombia, where the drug war goes on in full scale. i noticed belgium wasn't willing to go with coffeeshops, either.

holland really has a place in history with the coffeeshops--an ultra-historical legend, if you will, something that was there in the long ago past and is still there. for some of us, it isn't just glitzy, postmodern, supermodernized holland--there's a hint of the past when you take that walk to a shop.
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cannabisshops in holland

Postby raj » Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:21 am

i hate to keep saying that i admire you, nol, but i do. you may not know how radical what you say is in the country i live in. and to believe it, fantastic. literally no one can say that kind of stuff in the us, no one feels really confident to say it. BUT i think the PvdA, a socialist party, could be talked to. rob cohen was their frontman for the jan elections, and he was mayor of amsterdam and a supporter of the tolerance policy.

well, anyway, you're probably used to this. it seems like every year or other year there's some international outcry about the dutch coffeeshop system--from the usual agitators. i'm still impressed that it survived! for example, in 97 the UN took an unfavorable look at holland; then in '99 our drug czar, barry mccaffery, called the dutch policy "an unmitigated disaster" and threatened to put holland on the dangerous nations list. balkenende's plan to shut all coffeeshops was expressed in 2002, and now this.

but let's remember--if we lose the coffeeshops, it'll be damn tough to get them back. holland certainly has the ability to run its country like other prohibition countries, that's never in doubt. sometimes i think there are dutch who get tired, like all other humans do, of saying they "can't do anything (coercive) about it" and feel that people think they're soft while other people are tough. with international pressure, that will be there for some.

but THEN AGAIN, you all survived Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton--i think you can handle our president-nuthead. peace.
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coffeeshop lobby

Postby green_chill » Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:08 pm

the presure on coffeeshops in the netherlands seems to be growing and i was wondering if there is a collective "counter fource" from the coffeeshops. every industry for example the steel industry has a lobby where the different companies meet together and work out problems together and present their view points. i don't know if a coffeshop lobby, where all the coffeeshop owners work together, already exists in holland but i think it would be a great idea. together you would have much more power and it wouldn't be a fight from the side of the government against single coffeeshops but against a united front.
its just an idea i had while lieing in my bathtub :idea: and as i said before i don't know if it already exists.
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Postby Katie » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:43 am

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
-Mark Twain


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Re: coffeeshop lobby

Postby milehigh » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:40 pm

green_chill wrote:the presure on coffeeshops in the netherlands seems to be growing and i was wondering if there is a collective "counter fource" from the coffeeshops. every industry for example the steel industry has a lobby where the different companies meet together and work out problems together and present their view points. i don't know if a coffeshop lobby, where all the coffeeshop owners work together, already exists in holland but i think it would be a great idea. together you would have much more power and it wouldn't be a fight from the side of the government against single coffeeshops but against a united front.
its just an idea i had while lieing in my bathtub :idea: and as i said before i don't know if it already exists.


It's called the BDA, however they are all chickenshits. Nol is the only one who stands up to the politians. That's why Haarlem is known as "Hemp City". It is the model for the rest of the country to follow.

I am confident that the laws will not change for the worse.
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