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Donner wants to stop dopedeals with foreigners in coffeeshop

Will the Netherlands set a worldwide trend for cannabis policies?

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Donner wants to stop dopedeals with foreigners in coffeeshop

Postby cannabinol » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:30 pm

Justice Minister Donner demands Dutch coffeeshops to discriminate.

Dutch coffeeshops have been popular since they opened, in the early seventies, and not only with the local population, they have also been frequented by foreigners from all parts of the world, from the day the first coffeeshop opened. The first dealer in Amsterdam’s first coffeeshop, the Mellow yellow, was a Briton, serving hash and grass for years, to an international public, in the heydays of the hippie era.
Amsterdam was and is the Mecca of Marihuana, with about 200 of Holland’s 800 coffeeshops within its city limits, for every cannabis user of the world, from Iceland to New Caledonia.
Many millions of foreign visitors have bought and smoked cannabis freely in one of the Dutch coffeeshops, where hash and marihuana are being sold openly, bound by certain regulations and rules, to anyone over 18 years of age.
There has never been anything strange about that, coffeeshops are the most universal public places in the world, mellow melting pots of people from all races, religions and colours, united by their affection for cannabis and the mind expanding properties of the softdrugs.
Coffeeshops are places of peace and tranquillity, the side effects of cannabis are the very relaxing vibes the user will have, both mentally and physically, causing tolerance and understanding towards others. Police figures show that fights and violence in coffeeshops practically do not occur, and that the number of fights and violent incidents in bars, disco’s and other alcohol outlets increases every year.
If you would just compare the two distinctive consumer groups, it is very clear that the cannabis consumers live in a safer environment than the alcohol consumers.
Coffeeshops do not cause any harm to Dutch society, not their existence, nor the products they sell, nobody can die on an ‘overdose’ of hash and/or marihuana.
Yet, coffeeshops will be practically off limits for tourists and other foreigner visitors, if Holland’s Justice Minister Donner can have it his way, he wants to forbid the sales of cannabis from coffeeshops to non-Dutch people. Minister Donner wants to comply to the hoax called “foreign pressure”, from the UN and from individual countries like the US, France and Sweden. This pressure is not based on facts or figures, because the use of cannabis in the US and France is higher than in the Netherlands, according to UN drug figures. This means that the Dutch coffeeshop system does not increase the use of cannabis, on the contrary, 38 countries in the UN tables on cannabis consumption have a higher percentage of cannabis consumption and –consumers. This means that the UN and the individual countries have no right to criticise the Netherlands and its coffeeshops, and that the Dutch Government can just wave the critics and get on with the urgent matters that really bother Dutch society.
Donner must have been on some strange dope, when he thought this all up, it is actually too insane to have to respond to this brainwave of a right wing catholic politician.
If his plans make it through the Dutch parliament, it will be practically impossible to uphold the new Law or rule, he already needs 5000 more police officers to get his forces up to their full strength. It would take 1600 officers to just check up on the 800 coffeeshops, in two shifts.
I can hardly imagine that Minister Donner is going to deputise all Dutch coffeeshop workers as police or customs officers, to be able to ask complete strangers for their ID.
I do think Donner’s plans are against the Law, he is telling coffeeshop owners and –staff to discriminate innocent people, just because they are not Dutch. I also think it is against the EU
Constitution, which gives each European the same rights as a citizen of the country he/she visits.
As always, there is a simple way around the ‘problem’: Foreign visitors will still be able to enter coffeeshops, where they can ask any Dutch person to buy them their goods, that’s how simple it is. If Donner’s scheme is accepted and executed, we will always have a host available, wearing a T shirt with the following print: I buy cannabis for foreigners!
If you fel discriminated too, express yourself against Donner and his measurements by sending him an email, or just call the number of his department, stay polite, if you can.

Objections to Donner’s Discriminative Dopeproject:


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Postby merryprankster » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:31 pm

I buy cannabis for foreigners!

Giz a job! I can do that.

Bugger no I can't, im English.
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Postby young wallace » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:38 pm

Hmmm, now when I was in Amsterdam I spent much more money on a Hotel room than I did on cannabis. Hell, I spent more money on food than I did on cannabis.

Why did I go to Amsterdam instead of Antwerp?.......Cannabis!

What the hell, who needs all that tourism anyway!!
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more news about Donner and the Germans.

Postby cannabinol » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:14 pm

Posted by CN Staff on October 23, 2003 at 12:11:50 PT
News Story
Source: Deutsche Welle

German Interior Minister Otto Schily and Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner have agreed to fight the drug trade together but clashed on the subject of Dutch coffee shops which sell cannabis.
Despite their differences of opinion over some areas of drug law and legalization, Germany and the Netherlands, its more permissive, liberal neighbor, agreed on Wednesday that the two countries would step up their collective efforts to fight the international drug trade and harmonize their narcotics laws.

German Interior Minister Otto Schily and Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner met in Berlin to hammer out the details of a German-Dutch pact which would include initiatives to enhance the effectiveness of the police patrols on the two countries’ shared border in a bid to combat drug trafficking.

“We have patrol agreements with France and we operate similar ones with Poland and the Czech Republic. And it will be good when we also bring an equivalent agreement together with Holland,” Schily said.

The current amount of drugs crossing from the Netherlands to Germany show exactly how porous the border is.

International smuggling

One particular concern is the increase of drug smuggling coming into Europe through Amsterdam's Schiphol airport. Both ministers were particularly concerned about drug couriers who use international flights to transport narcotics from South America, for example, to Europe.

Donner told reporters that at least 20 tons of cocaine were brought into Europe each year through Schiphol, the main Dutch hub, where local police arrest 200 drug couriers every month. “That is a substantial share, at least ten percent of the whole European intake,” he said.

Schily and Donner showed a united front by saying that both countries were ready to put pressure on airlines to stem the problem, even suspending services between some cities on notorious drug routes.

Exchange of intelligence planned

Other measures, including the exchange of police records with the Benelux countries -- Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg -- and other neighbors were being considered, said Schily. The German interior minister added that Germany would send officials to the Netherlands to help coordinate law enforcement efforts.

Despite the positive messages, the two ministers clashed over the subject of the Dutch coffee shops, establishments which legally sell cannabis and other so-called soft drugs over the counter. Nearly 800 coffee shops across the country offer cannabis under government regulations that allow the sale of up to five grams of the drug to individual customers for their own consumption. Possession of more than 30 grams is illegal in the Netherlands.

Schily, a vehement opponent of the Dutch attitude to soft drugs, urged his counterpart to close the coffee shops, saying that the sale of any drugs advocated their use.

A Dutch problem

But Donner said the cafes offered Dutch authorities an opportunity to keep a close check on drug use. “Even though I understand the German opinion on the question of coffee shops, I must say that it is a question for the Dutch and not a problem for our neighbors,” he said.

In a bid to placate his German counterpart, he did however present proposals that would, if agreed on, prevent drug tourism between the two countries by only allowing Dutch residents to visit the nation's infamous cannabis cafes.

Proposals target drug tourists

In the plan, cannabis sales could in future be restricted by the introduction of a pass card or membership system and coffee shop customers might also be required to show their passports. The minister added, however, that he did not intend to introduce the system himself.

Such a set of proposals would be welcomed by resident committees, especially those in the eastern town of Venlo which sits on the German border. The town has five official coffee shops and many illegal ones which serve German drug tourists heading the short distance over the border for a hit. There are also plans to establish two shops nearer to the German border to reduce the nuisance factor for city center residents.

But officials from the Venlo city council and other municipalities are concerned by Donner’s proposals, saying that they would result in an explosive increase in the illegal trade. The Association of Dutch Municipalities said it wanted to wait for definite plans before assessing reactions from its member councils.

Note: Germany and the Netherlands say they'll work to get tough on the drug trade together.

Source: Deutsche Welle (Germany)
Published: October 23, 2003
Copyright: 2003 Deutsche Welle
Website: http://www.dw-world.de/english/
Contact: http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,266_K,00.html

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Facts and figures.

Postby cannabinol » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:15 pm

Facts and figures around Dutch drug consumption, in comparison with the UN countries that criticise the drug policy of the Netherlands.

According to the last UN drug figures, made available on the UN website, I have found out that the Netherlands is just an average country in the consumption of drugs.
The 2003 stats on Global Illicit Drug Trends show that the worlds Nr. 1 Narco State, as France uses to call the Netherlands, is not as dopey as we all think, or seem to know.
Direct link to UN report: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/report_2003-06-26_1.pdf
Out of all UN countries, The Netherlands are 31st in the consumption, or abuse, as the UN calls it, of cannabis, 12th in the consumption of cocaine, together with Colombia, and only 35th in the consumption of opiates, like heroin and morphine. Prohibitionist countries like the US, France and Germany score the following UN rankings of drugs consumption:

US: 14th in cannabis consumption.
1st in cocaine consumption. (shared with Spain)
19th in opiates consumption.

France: 17th in cannabis consumption.
Bottom of the list in cocaine consumption.
23rd in opiates consumption.

Germany: 26th in cannabis consumption.
17th in cocaine consumption.
35th in opiates consumption.

As you can see, these big UN members all have a higher consumption of cannabis, without any registered outlets, like the coffeeshops in the Netherlands. The UN cannabis consumption ranking is led by Papua New Guinea. In fact, 30 UN countries have a higher cannabis consumption than the Netherlands, but, so far, the Netherlands is the only country that gets a lot of criticism for its cannabis policy. Overall, the US makes the worst score in comparison to the Netherlands, they out-consume the Dutch in every drug division, even in Ecstasy, as if it were in the Olympics. The French consume more cannabis and heroin than the Dutch, the Germans also consume more cannabis than the Dutch, the consumption of heroin in Germany is equal to that in Holland, and the cocaine consumption lower than in the Netherlands.

The US, France, Germany, Spain, the UK, Belgium, Ireland and 23 other UN countries have no right to criticise the Dutch cannabis policy, because they all have a higher percentage of cannabis consumption per head.
The UN should start from the top, instead of focusing on the intermediate cannabis consumption in the Netherlands, we were never made aware about the 3rd place ranking of Ghana, the native country of UN boss Kofi Annan, with 21,5 % of the population over 15 years smoking cannabis. The UN never pointed to that, nor did they ever criticise the use of marihuana there, almost 4 times as much as in the Netherlands! The US was never put under pressure to do something about the extremely high consumption of cocaine and cannabis in their country.
Justice Minister Donner of the Netherlands ignores all these facts and figures, I dare to say knowingly, and uses the criticism from the UN and UN members like the US, France and Germany to make a fist against the Dutch coffeeshops. His latest plans, no longer allowing foreigners to buy cannabis in Dutch coffeeshops, are meant as a new weapon in his crusade against coffeeshops. His party, the CDA, wants no coffeeshops at all, but they do not have the power to close them. By setting up more and more ridiculous rules and regulations for and around coffeeshops, they hope to be able to catch and penalise the coffeeshops for breaking one of many rules. If a coffeeshop is found in violation of a local coffeeshop rule or regulation, they are given a yellow card, like in soccer. Three yellow cards means the coffeeshop will be closed, forever. This way, Donner practices party politics, he uses the hoax of international pressure as his motive for doing so.
Donner already promised the German Government that he would forbid the sales to foreigners from coffeeshops last Wednesday, in Berlin, two days before he will propose his anti-foreigner plans to the Dutch Parliament, who will have to judge over this strange prerogative, on Friday, October 24.
Minister Donner should have told the Germans, the French and even the UN off, if he is a true representative of his country, a country with the best and only drug policy in the world, one can hardly call prohibition a policy, if it is, it is a dictatorial policy.
Minister Donner should have told the German Justice Minister to keep his cannabis consumers in his own country, by making cannabis available in registered outlets, because cannabis consumption in Germany is higher than in his country, the Netherlands, where cannabis is available through coffeeshops.
Minister Donner should tell the UN, the US, and France to try and do something about the growing consumption of cannabis in their countries, without it being available, except from the dangerous black market, where all drugs are sold by the same suppliers, without any control on quality and prices.
Minister Donner will do none of this, he just licks up to the big countries, with their big drug problems, and he will just try to close as many coffeeshops as he possibly can, in the line of his political party, blind as a mule, def as a mole, and as dumb as an ass.
Minister Donner does not seem to realise he can not ban cannabis consumption by closing the Dutch coffeeshops, if he could, the sales and use of cannabis will hit the streets of the Netherlands, and mingle with the hard drugs and their users. This would give the Netherlands a higher ranking in the coming UN Global Illicit Drug Trends statistics, but Donner does not care, or does not know about this. He wants to please his master, PM Balkenende, who said he would close all coffeeshops before he was elected, and holds on to this stance now.

Minister Donner wants all Dutch cannabis consumers to register at the coffeeshop they buy their cannabis, so they can be issued a pass by the coffeeshop involved. This means every Dutch cannabis consumer will HAVE to register to become some kind of kinky ID to be able to buy cannabis, which clearly distinguishes him or her from the rest of the inhabitants of the Netherlands. I am sure this cannot be forced upon us, it is discriminative and very nasty to register people who believe in different things than the general population.
As always, the Dutch politicians want to dump the responsibility in the hands of the coffeeshop entrepreneur, not in the hands of the people responsible to uphold the stupid laws Donner comes up with.
I suggest that Minister Donner just puts a police officer outside every coffeeshop, to ask the visitors for their ID, they can let the Dutch visitors through, and they should just stick a sticker on the chest of the foreign visitors, to identify them as people we can no longer deal with. Under pressure of the German Government.
Minister Donner is a threat to the Dutch way of life, somebody better tell him.

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minister donner's plan

Postby qahouaji » Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:44 pm


well, i doubt it. again, has to be passed by parliament, which is pro-cannabis.

but, i guess we can expect these kinds of slaps in the face every couple of months.

now, if they wanted to restrict sales to only dutch people, a much stronger argument can be made for legalization of cannabis. donner is apparently very afraid that the international community will try to push holland into the stance of an "outlaw" country meriting sanctions against it--he is, well, paranoid about it.

it's true, these jerks have the office & will be there for another three years. but again, with CDA the only party against legalization, and the rest of parliament for it, i doubt it.

i guess balkenende could try to slap some "emergency order," but i think parliament would still have to support it. or he could decide to rule by decree; that would make him feel good personally, he could be a dictator or something.

but i doubt it. i think the current policy will survive.

--the qahouaji

Postby Roger » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:27 pm

I want to send a protest email to Donner, can someone make a "template" email for me (and other people who wants to protest)?
I'd like to visit Holland sometime, but it would be really sad if I couldn't buy cannabis while I was there :(
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Donner´s Dopey ID makes no sense, it is illegal!!!!!

Postby cannabinol » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:46 pm

Dutch coffeeshops can keep on serving foreign cannabis consumers.

The recent news about the possible exclusion of foreigners from the Dutch cannabis coffeeshops raised quite an up stir, worldwide!
I have the habit to protest against any anti coffeeshop and cannabis propaganda, and not only because I happen to be the co-owner of three coffeeshops, I have a problem with prohibition.
After doing some digging on and downloading from the Internet, I found out that Minister Donner has no right to exclude foreigners from purchasing marihuana or hash in our widely criticised coffeeshops, he is just trying to stay friends with the Germans by making promises he cannot keep. Here is what I dug up, and the Dutch coffeeshop regulations.
Just keep all coming to the Netherlands to enjoy cannabis in coffeeshops, the boogie man does not exist….

Dutch coffeeshops: Current legal status.

The latest commotion around Dutch cannabis coffeeshops, caused by the criticism of Germany’s Minister of the Interior, Otto Schily, leads people to believe this will automatically lead to the measurements suggested by the new Dutch Minister of Justice, Piet Hein Donner.
I will try to explain the legal status of the Dutch cannabis coffeeshops.

According to the 2003 figures, there are now only 782 THC coffeeshops left in the Netherlands.

All of these coffeeshops are allowed to sell cannabis, through a tolerance permit, they all pay taxes over the sales of cannabis.

Justice Minister Donner is clear about coffeeshops: He does not want them, and will try everything in his power to get them all closed. He promised he will close half of the Dutch coffeeshops, who are to close to schools and other buildings where young people are concentrated, and for other violations of the AHOJG regulations for coffeeshops.
This is bluff, Minister Donner knows that he can not close one coffeeshop, he can only ask the city-councils and Mayors to act as he wishes, for only local authorities have the power to act against the coffeeshops in their municipality. The Dutch Government only set out the guidelines for Holland’s coffeeshop policy, it is up to the local authorities to work out a policy for their city, town or village. The CDA, Donner’s political party, and the biggest party in the Netherlands, stands alone in their urge to go after coffeeshops and cannabis, all other parties in the Dutch Parliament are for a more progressive stance towards the substance and the trade in it. Only the municipalities with a CDA lead City council and Mayor might be subdue to Donner’s wishes, in case they have any coffeeshops. Only 107 out of Holland’s 496 municipalities have coffeeshops, so the black market serves the largest part of our country, even today. That would be the channel that could serve the foreigners, in case Donner’s scheme would have worked, as they serve the under 18’s already. About 46 % of the Dutch cannabists buy their softdrugs in coffeeshops.
The CDA believes in the gateway theory, meaning they think that cannabis is the first step to the use of hard drugs, the reason they want to close the coffeeshops. This makes them so tough to convince, it is easier to argue with the wise, than it is to argue with the ignorant.

Minister Donner is heavily overplaying his hand, he already promised German Minister Schily that he would tell the Dutch coffeeshops to no longer sell cannabis to foreigners, specifically Germans. The City councils involved, those along the German border, and Venlo in particular, do not agree with Donner. Venlo has 5 registered coffeeshops, and recently launched the plan to open two more, close to the German border, to keep the traffic out of the city centre. Venlo is afraid that Donner’s plans will cause more dealers on the street, and wants to talk to Donner on short notice, about the consequences of his ideas.
Other cities from the border area, Nijmegen, Hengelo and Enschede clearly state that foreign visitors of the coffeeshops do not cause any problems at the moment. These cities will not comply with Donner’s plans, they want peace and quiet in their communities, and freely accessible coffeeshops. The Dutch Federation of Municipalities (VNG) will await Donner’s concrete proposals first, in order to be able to check the stance of the member cities and municipalities.
The ‘border problem’ can only be solved by opening coffeeshops in Germany, Minister Donner should tell Minister Schily that, instead of licking up to him. Like the CDA, Minister Schily is a believer in the Gateway Theory, ignorance is not bound by borders.

The registration system, as Minister Donner wants it, will implicate that all coffeeshop will have to become members-clubs, register their, Dutch only, visitors as members and issue them with a members pass. Only people with such a pass should be allowed to buy and use cannabis, foreigners without a pass can only enter the coffeeshops, drink coffee and watch the Dutchies do their thing, smoking cannabis in a safe environment. This system would not only exclude Germans, but every non-Dutch person, even Eskimo’s.
This will not work, because such a system would be against the Law, says Ruud Galle, a professor in Members-Clubs Law. He says it might be the system to regulate the business, buy allowing a maximum number of members, who can buy a maximum quantity of cannabis. But you cannot refuse members on nationality, that is DISCRIMINATION. Galle also predicts that Donner’s plans would lead to the creation of new channels. Members that can buy cannabis can then sell it to others, for example.
This means, that any foreigner could join up as a member of a Dutch coffeeshop club, and buy and smoke cannabis in there. Let’s save ourselves the time and money, and invest that in a nice joint, instead of filling in a form and walking around with Donner’s Dopey ID.

Belgium, on the other hand, recently allowed their cannabis-consuming citizens the possession of 3 grams of cannabis, and to use it in private. Their Justice Minister, Verwilghen, said that he would not allow the sales of cannabis in Belgium, anyone who wants it, should go to a Dutch coffeeshop. Minister Donner never addressed him about that, although the coffeeshops on the Belgian border are flushed with herds of Belgian and French cannabists.
Verwilghen was clearly in violation of the A of the Dutch AHOJG rules, he was promoting all Dutch coffeeshops!
It appears that Donner is not very smart, he shouts all kind of things about and against coffeeshops, then comes up with a couple of weird plans, which all turn out to be non-executable, legally and technically. Holland has a clown running the Justice department, and an adult Harry Potter for Prime Minister, but they are not very entertaining, their lack of competence is boring and disturbing.
One of the Dutch parties in the opposition, Groen Links (Green Left), knows all the facts that Donner either ignored or did not know, they made an excellent report about the use of drugs in the Netherlands, based on facts and figures of official statistics and research. They suggest to take cannabis out of the penal system, and to regulate the use of other drugs efficiently, for the better of Dutch society, and to inform the rest of the world of the good results of the Dutch policy.
Groen Links should ask the parliament if Minister Donner was informed about the standing of the Netherlands in drugs consumption worldwide, before he started selling us out to Germany.

My coffeeshops are open for everybody above 18 years, and we sell cannabis to every nationality, we might refuse right wing politicians.

The Dutch Coffeeshop regulations, or the: AHOJG rules in English:

A : the A means : NO Advertising or promotion for the sales of softdrugs.
No more weed leafs on the front of coffeeshops, in some cities it is even forbidden to have your logo and address printed on your lighters ! No stickers, no T-shirts, no ads.

H : the H stands for : NO Hard drugs on the premises, not for sale and not for personal use. The shopkeeper and staff have to be real sharp on this, the police are!
Coffeeshops do not allow problematic hard drug users in, for that reason, their personal stash could mean a yellow card for the coffeeshop, on a check up.

O : the O stands for NO Overlast, which word actually means: Disturbing of the peace, like to loud music, customers being to loud on leaving the premises, etc. This rule goes for all bars, discos, cafes and restaurants too, and are common in Dutch Leisure and society.

J : The J is your Y, for NO Youths, they are not allowed in under 18 years of age.
Coffeeshops should be on a certain distance from schools and youth centers, varying from 150 to 250 meters, in different municipalities.

G : The G stands for NO Big Quantities, coffeeshops are not allowed to sell more than 5 grams, per person, per day. Coffeeshops are allowed to stock a maximum of 500 grams.

Groen Links Report:

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donner's plan is, er, bogus dude

Postby qahouaji » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:47 pm

thanks nol--

everytime one of these new threatened changes happens from donner, the press completely misreads it and distorts the fact that these are always proposed changes, not punitive laws that have been agreed to formally by parliament...

but, again. these right-wing nuts will be around in office until 2007! i know these kinds of ideas will circulate in the parliamentary universe over there...

but it's good that you keep us up to date on what really is happening, otherwise we wouldn't have the confidence to come to your country, ha ha...

...ah, yes, the green bud. hope to see netherlands soon. been there 10 times in past 2 years; if i could live there, then let me find a way...

"a pipe of kif before breakfast gives a man the strength of a hundred camels in the courtyard" --paul bowles

--the qahouaji

not all germans suck

Postby green goblin » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:54 pm

i am german and i can tell u that i am just so annoyed about the arrogance of the government here. i am not really sure where to start. we go off bombing bosnia and afghanistan which costs us hundreds of millions if not billions. at the same time our school system is one of the worst. i think in an overall comparisson the school system was nxt to that of mexico. and now this. they try not only to harrass us in germany about weed but also stop us from enjoying cannabis in holland. i ask my self what right do the have o decide what i do with myself especially what i do in other countries. its sounds like new form of a totalitarian communist state only that the state forbids stuff and does do anything good. it relly is a shame.

i spoke to this german BKA officer (german version of the FBI) and he said that there is no point in criminalizing most drugs. thats its actually more dangerous cause there is no control and cause the government loses out on all the profits. he also said that the only get 10% of all drugs entering germany at max! and usually the get the info from rivaling drug smuggling groups so they actually help them as well. its crazy.
green goblin


Postby Dibbz » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:45 pm

It doesn't apply to me im european i can im no tourist, different accent doesnt make me nothing and id like to see these threats and so called scares put into action!!!!!

Bla Bla Bla someones got to do the bullshit talking and this tie its donner!!!
I will do it again and again and again and again and again and again.......
Smoke Reefer that is!!!
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donner's evil plan

Postby qahouaji » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:25 am

hi, everyone--

this is what i suggest we can do, those of us who aren't dutch:

write a letter to all the parties against the proposed changes. especially, write to CDA's coalition partners, VVD and D66. tell them the following obvious consequences:

--first off, that such a move in restricting sales would aggravate street crime
--second, that we're peace-loving and that we're persecuted subjects fleeing persecution, and find the netherlands a tolerant and enlightened country
--third, that we contribute immensely to the netherlands' economy--and that in a recessioanary period, banning tourists from coffeeshops would only aggravate problems currently in ferment
--fourth, that this move is ILLEGAL, and
--fifth, that the netherlands doesn't contribute all that much to drug smuggling. remember,
guys, that cannabis cultivation is skyrocketing in britain, france, and germany.

click on nol's link to send a letter of protest as well. if you want to see coffeeshops open like they have been, you must act. this is a moment in time that DEMAMDS protest.
thanks, and kif forever.


fighting donner's plans

Postby qahouaji » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:57 pm


hightimes.com finally posted an article; it came from "substance abuse.com", so the prohibitionists worldwide are looking at this article...

THEREFORE, it's important that we communicate our understanding of this issue with PvdA, the Netherlands' second largest party and a politically left-leaning party. the article stated that "it is unclear" how they would vote on this. do not leave anything to chance. write to PvdA and explain to them why this move would be a bad idea. hope this helps!


fighting minister donner's plans

Postby qahouaji » Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:19 pm


i visit the netherlands frequently and i smoke. however, whenever these proposed changes happen, the press and the political parties keep us in ignorance. now, do you think this tourist ban is going to happen? i mean, are the political parties minded to accept the proposal or are they not? i like to go to holland with some confidence that smoking won't be a problem, but it seems like everytime me and my wife plan to go there, we're hit with this threat of the "end of the tolerance policy" and get to spend our hard-earned money without any real confidence the whole thing will hold up. i'm sure there are other tourists who are worried, have saved their pennies, and resent this. please let me know if the parliament is really interested in this tourist ban...

in the meantime, i ask everyone who cares about the issue to write letters to PvdA, Holland's second largest party and a supporter of the "tolerance policy". explain to them first and foremost that such a move will do nothing to curb cannabis production and trafficking in the other EU countries--how could they even think that? cannabis cultivation is skyrocketing in Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland--Holland ISN'T responsible for it!!

"we shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the landing grounds,
we shall fight them in the streets and in our schools...



Ban on foreign pot people.

Postby cannabinol » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:42 pm

No way can this go on the way Donnerwetter suggests it, it has already been laughed about by the rest of the Parliament. Donner will come out with his new drugs proposals in December, to try and schock our little nation onece again, with his dumb and anti-social suggestions.

Donner is not for real, he advised us, the Dutch citizens, to not interfere in any crime on the streets, just observe someone being beat up, call the police and shout ¨Booh´ at the agressors. He did so in last weeks newspapers, the criminals in Holland are scared shitless now, as you can imagine, they will be boo-ed!

Donner is a reformed catholic, very conservative and not at all in touch with the people of the country he represents. He is supposed to be very smart, in theory, but his practical experiences with real life have yet to take place.

Besides all this, the Dutch coffeeshops entrepreneurs will just not give in, we will always find a way to serve you and millions from abroad, in the best Dutch tradition, we have always been dope traders, for ages.
In Cannabis Fidelis
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