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Can someone comment on new version of war on the coffeeshops

Will the Netherlands set a worldwide trend for cannabis policies?

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Can someone comment on new version of war on the coffeeshops

Postby Virgil » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:20 am

From http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/st ... ory=616967

Amsterdam falls out of love with coffee shops as liberal stance on drugs begins to crumble
By Jason Bennetto, Crime Correspondent

05 March 2005

For the past 18 years Michael Veling and his staff have been serving up such delights as White Widow and Blueberry in his wood-panelled coffee shop in the heart of Amsterdam.

For as little as €5 (£3.50) visitors can smoke a cannabis joint in Café De Kuil and sip a beer while listening to music ranging from Frank Zappa to Mozart.

The 50-year-old bar owner and political activist said: "My main concern is to make sure there is a good mix of people at my coffee shop and that they get the best quality grass and marijuana."

But the Dutch coffee shop system is under threat. According to one of the country's leading drug specialists and a government adviser, cannabis coffee shops and café-bars will be extinct within five years.

The number of cannabis outlets has already declined from a peak of nearly 1,500 to about 750. Only about a fifth of Dutch towns and cities have coffee shops, and that number is shrinking.

The clampdown is being blamed on a more conservative attitude by the coalition government and local mayors, and pressure from other European Union members who disapprove of the Dutch approach.

This shift in attitude was acknowledged by the United Nations earlier this week. The annual report by the International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), which is part of the UN, noted that the Netherlands' government had informed them of a "crucial and significant change in its policy on cannabis". It said that the Dutch government has promised to take tougher action against drug tourists, street dealing, cannabis growing, and the coffee shops. The report stated: "The [Dutch] government notes that coffee shops may discredit the drug policy of the country in general."

Professor Hamid Ghodse, president of the INCB, said: "There has been a crucial and significant change in the Dutch cannabis policy. They now say for the first time that cannabis is not harmless and that coffee shops are not blameless."

Among the measures being introduced is a pilot scheme in the province of Limburg which bans foreigners from buying drugs in coffee shops, to kill the trade in tourists coming over the nearby borders with Germany and Belgium. A study is being made of strong forms of cannabis, which is likely to lead to a ban of these varieties. In addition the police are targeting people who grow cannabis at home.

The law on coffee shops, the first of which opened in 1975, is confusing, and many believe nonsensical. Cannabis use is not illegal, but possession of the drug is against the law. However, anyone caught with less than 30g of the substance is not prosecuted. Anyone aged over 18 can buy up to five grams of cannabis in a coffee shop, which is allowed to hold a stock of up to 500g. But technically the shop owner is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for buying large quantities of cannabis in the first place and transporting it to the shop.

Supporters of the coffee shop system fear that a collapse of the outlets would lead to drug dealing and cultivation going underground, which would play into the hands of criminals.

August de Loor, an independent consultant who advises the Dutch government on drug policy, said: "The changes have been brought about by the influence of the Yankees [the United States], Brussels and the EU. The Dutch approach is usually very pragmatic.

"But in the past four years things have started to change and there is a more conservative approach. The control of coffee shops has become much more strict. The police are checking up on them more and there is much more strict interpretation of the rules. More and more mayors are banning coffee shops from their cities. I think in four or five years' time there will be no more coffee shops left in Holland."

He added: "We have a conservative government at the moment but it's nothing to do with the left or right. It's a moral thing. It's a sign of the times."

But Mr Veling is unperturbed by talk of the death of the coffee shop. "It's all rhetoric by the government. It's just to pacify certain members of the European Union - I do not believe it," he said.

HOW THE LAW VARIES

Britain: Cannabis has been downgraded from Class B to Class C. Possession of a small amount ceased to be an arrestable offence in most situations, but officers still have the power to arrest. Usually, the drug is to be confiscated and users warned. The maximum penalty for possession has been reduced from five years to two years.

Netherlands: Dealing in small quantities of cannabis through coffee shops is technically illegal. Drug use is not an offence. Possessingup to 30g is a minor offence, though users are not prosecuted. Possessingmore than 30g is a criminal offence.
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naw, I don't believe it--

Postby qahouaji » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:02 pm

This "expert" is way, way off. Nothing like that is going to happen.

I was informed by justitie.nl that the general policy of reducing the # of shops has been in effect since 95. I seriously doubt there will be any big changes, and at the rate that they're showing there'd still be about 600 open and licensed shops five years from now.

I doubt it. Any take on this nol?

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can someone comment....

Postby qahouaji » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:19 am

hi--


i don't think much is really going to happen. Here's why---

Look up amsterdam.nl--the government of amsterdam website. Click on government, and look for "drugs". Apparently, there are 86 coffeeshops that sell alcohol. They are being given the "option" of continuing as coffeeshops or as bars selling alcohol.

Apparently, some of them are opting for the "bar" option. I checked this out on the "amsterdam coffeeshop directory" site, some of them think that operating as a bar is more of a better idea.

Then there are the shops that aren't making money. Does happen, you know.

BUT i will say that most EU governments aren't buying the "coffeeshop" idea. Decriminalization (legalization) of growing plants or possession, yes, selling weed, no. That appears to be our current problem.

--qahouaji
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wearing me out....

Postby cannabinol » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:39 am

I am really getting a little tired of all this shit, because there are no indications whatsoever that coffeeshops would be extinct.

One more time:

In general, moer coffeeshops are opening up in smaller towns, to satisfy the local demand for cannabis.

Amstredam, and Amsterdam only, is the only City that was not bothered by Hollands new coffeeshop laws that came to power in 1997.

Under that new law, all other Dutch Cities and towns reduced the numbers of coffeeshops, according to the number of inhabitants, with a rate of one coffeeshop for 10.000 people. Smaller towns could open a coffeeshop when reaching 25.000 inhabitants, and one per 10.000 on reaching/having 50.000+
inhabitants.

Amsterdam has about 900.000 inhabitants, which would normally allow 90 coffeeshops. The City wants to go down to 120, taking the tourists visiting in consideration.
This means the City wants to close about 140 coffeeshops, or at least take away the cannabis license of the places that sell both alcohol and cannabis.
That is sad, from our point of view, but this does not mean coffeeshops will no longer be in Amsterdam, a lot less, yes!

Do not let non-Dutch press wind you up, they all lick the assholes of their prohibitionist dictators! Fuck the press, especially the British press!
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UK press....

Postby cannabinol » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:40 am

The number of cannabis outlets has already declined from a peak of nearly 1,500 to about 750. Only about a fifth of Dutch towns and cities have coffee shops, and that number is shrinking.

This is a lie, three small towns have aloowed coffeeshops last year, one of them will allow a second one.

The number of municipalities with coffeeshops is growing.
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lie over lie...

Postby cannabinol » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:40 am

Among the measures being introduced is a pilot scheme in the province of Limburg which bans foreigners from buying drugs in coffee shops, to kill the trade in tourists coming over the nearby borders with Germany and Belgium. A study is being made of strong forms of cannabis, which is likely to lead to a ban of these varieties. In addition the police are targeting people who grow cannabis at home.

This schem never took off, instead, the Mayor wants to move all coffeeshops out of town , close to the German border, to keep the German potsmokers from parking all over his City Centre.
This is such dumb shit, they just tell lies!!!

Let's all email the fucking newspaper about all this!!
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as Michael says....

Postby cannabinol » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:41 am

But Mr Veling is unperturbed by talk of the death of the coffee shop. "It's all rhetoric by the government. It's just to pacify certain members of the European Union - I do not believe it," he said.

This guy, a good colleague, knows what he si talking about, the only tru statement in the frigging article!
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can someone comment...

Postby qahouaji » Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:44 am

a couple of things--

it's going to be hard for them to close 140 shops in Amsterdam; I doubt the mayor, for example, could really be said to be for it (I may be wrong)...

...more worried about the proposed ban on "strong" cannabis. That worries me, it sounds good to politicians to do so. But there are so many reasons why that shouldn't happen: 1) it would give a lot more trade to the illegal dealers, they would become billionaires overnight. Then there's the fact that illegal cultivation skyrocketing in other EU countries--France, Britain, Germany, Switzerland. Finally there's the tourist factor--who's going to come all the way to Holland to buy schwag? This move to outlaw "high-grade" cannabis had better not succeed, otherwise the coffeeshop system as we understand it today is done...

...let's hope not. PLEASE. PS if there is a link to protest these moves, I'm in...

Peace,
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Postby OAF » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:33 pm

It's all a bunch of crap like Nol said.
Can you even imagine them trying to figure out whats Stronger then other types?
They would have to hire someone who ACTUALLY knows how to tell the difference...and that would cost the towns/Cities/Country/etc Lots of money Money that they currently don't have to spend.
We're talking lots of people having to be paid to make it to all the shops to "TEST" quality and to assure stronger grades are still not made available? Not Going To Happen!
Then, to chance this whole ordeal to possible lose cannibis tourism money because they're restricting the Quality.?.?.?
Lets add this up....

Less Tourism Dollars (Minus) High Cost of Testing/Regulating = Losing Proposition/changes!

Ya see, it doesn't add up, there for, it would never happen.

Thank you for your time! ;-)
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Strong bud...

Postby cannabinol » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:00 pm

Thta's no longer an issue in the Netherlands, the drug monitors stated that there are no indications stronger marihuana is causing social or medical problems. End of discussion of this topic.
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Postby cannabinol » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:50 am

Amsterdam -- Maastricht Mayor Gerd Leers has called for the toleration of soft drugs in the Netherlands to be extended to the production and supply of cannabis in a bid to reduce crime.

Presently, both possession and the sale of cannabis at so-called "coffee shops" is tolerated, but the production of marijuana and the supply to coffee shops is banned.

Leers said the ban on the cultivation and supply of cannabis leads to criminality, news agency ANP reported on Sunday. Small-scale cannabis cultivation for private use is already tolerated.

Tolerating commercial production would decriminalise the industry and police resources would therefore be freed up for other tasks, he said.

But Leers also warned that extended toleration should be accompanied by greater inspections on the amount and quality of the drugs.

Leers said drugs cannot be eliminated and should therefore be legalised and controlled. But he said legalisation could only occur in a European context.

Opening up of the cannabis market could thus only occur if Maastricht's neighbouring councils in Belgium and Germany also co-operated. This would give a definite signal to The Hague and Brussels.

Leers comments come in the lead-up to a cannabis conference in Maastricht in April, to be attended by the southern Dutch city's neighbouring councils. Drug tourists often cross the border to avail of the Dutch coffee shop policy.

And Leers' proposal is in contrast to his hard-line stance against trailer parks. These parks often operate as "free states" where people can live almost tax free and are frequently the site of cannabis plantations.

He also said during a visit to the US last month with other politicians and city mayors that the Netherlands was no longer the land where everything is allowed.

Leers said tolerance is okay, but only works within well defined parameters that must be carefully guarded.

Asserting that the Netherlands was getting tougher, Leers said it was never too late to clean up your own rubbish. He said the US needed to know the Dutch were no "softies" when it comes to drugs.

Source: Expatica.com (Amsterdam)
Published: Marcch 14, 2005
Copyright: 2005 Expatica News
Contact: feedback@expatica.com
Website: http://www.expatica.c
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Postby OAF » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:47 pm

I wish he'd vist the U.S. on a regular basis...maybe some of the common sense would sink into the U.S.'s governments Brains...and thing would get on the ball already.
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